how can someone be president of a country that doesn't exist?

Roadkill

"Hamas is officially sworn to the destruction of Israel but is open to an indefinite ceasefire." - Therein lies the problem, as far as Israel is concerned. As long as Hamas advocates the destruction of Israel, Israel will grab more land around Jerusalem. The cycle continues.

Someone else gets it. Looking at the rest of the responses, there seems to be a lot of hate for Israel. That's proof enough for me that they are indeed God's chosen people.

Ray in Jax: "Someone else gets it. Looking at the rest of the responses, there seems to be a lot of hate for Israel. That's proof enough for me that they are indeed God's chosen people."

==========

..........Excuse me, but just where is the quid-pro-quo in that? Could you give us a clear cut, objective and intelligent explanation to connect those two dots? What a pompous, self-possessed and arrogant attitude to have, and if they are God's chosen people, then what the hell are the rest of us, e.g., American Christians, their underlings? P.S., there is a lot of hate for North Korea as well.

"The leaders of rival Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas signed a deal in Qatar on Monday to form a unity government of independent technocrats for the West Bank and Gaza, headed by Abbas."

All of the chips are falling in line for the war in the Middle East. I heard some analysts talking last week and I'm buying in to their logic: They noted that a poxy war is the most likely start of an outright war. That is- Iran wants a war with Israel, however they can (and will) use their lackies around the region to get Israel to fight prior to Iran's engagement with Israel. Remember that with the fall of Egypt there was a massive smuggling effort of rockets, missiles, and munitions into Gaza. Lebanon is in the same boat, now with the agreement they'll be a better organized front against Israel (per Iran's wishes).

I think what we'll see is as Israel moves towards their strike on Iran's nuclear weapons program Gaza and Lebanon are building up and preparing to start outright fighting on Israel's borders. Who knows, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan may jump in as well. In any case there will be a massive barrage of rockets from multiple sides, which Israel will counter (and get the UN and the world upset with Israel- with a lot of lobbying from Iran and Russia). Iran will eventually jump in, however they will wait until Israel gets a bit distracted/mobilized so that their nuclear strikes are as potent as possible. It will get very ugly- killing millions on all sides.

That scenario makes sense to me now. It'll be no fun for Iran if they go it alone, so they'll use their anti-Israeli factions and friends to instigate a proxy war against Israel (it'll be by September this year- BTW likely insuring Obama a second term as Presidents don't usually fall during times of war) and then all hell will break loose very shortly after that. Please prepare yourselves for the hard times ahead.

While it may be true that God loves you when everyone else hates you, deriving the idea that God prefers those who are hated over those who are not skirts madness.

God's will as presented in the New Testament advocates brotherly love, forgiveness, charity, social justice, good stewardship of the world and those under your authority, and resisting the seductions of temptation in all its myriad forms.

If you believe that Israel is the home of the chosen of God, you may wish to remember that they are hardly the only- or even the original- occupants.

The "Way of Peace"? What peace?

Those long negotiations were never intended by Israel to produce anything like a lasting peace.

They were simply a cynical delaying tactic designed to allow the finalization of an ongoing expansionist occupation which has fostered a very profitable Arab enmity towards the United States for generations.

at dreams-talking out of your ass...if israel didnt want peace, they would've cleaned out Gaza, South Lebanon, and the "West Bank"... learn your facts before you talk

Oh come on people. Israel doesn't want peace. They want to continue to stoke the fire in order to grab as much land as possible- in violation of multiple UN mandates by the way, and secure the entirety of Jerusalem as well. And all those "good Christians" supporting Israel's efforts do so because their version of a fairy tale says that the 2nd coming will be brought by the destruction of Israel.

If Israel was glassed over, we wouldn't have to pay $20,000 a year to every man, woman and child per year from our foreign aid ($110 Billion and counting so far), tensions that they create in the region would cease to exist, and AIPAC might be relegated to the sidelines in our U.S. foreign policy.

If Israel continues to wage this quiet war, I say have at it, but accept the consequences. Find a way to make peace with your neighbors or you won't be around for long. And to all of your points about Fatah's pledge of destruction, that has been realized 10X over through Israel's collective punishment of the people in the occupied territories.

Either way, the U.S. needs to disengage from this decades long conflict and let the chips fall where they may.

Problem is that if you don't integrate extemism it will continue and grow. Integrating extremism with moderate views dilultes the threat. It can also make developing nation-states more powerful and influential, which is what Isreal really does not want here. They would rather the sides keep arguing among themselves, who would not make the same choice in that same situation?

Yada yada yada

war

yada yada yada

war

yada yada yada

war

....and on and on and on....until there is a winner or everything is destroyed.

God's chosen people

You can't make a more bigoted statement than this, which is the equivalent of calling all non Jews inferior. Every time I think that the Jews deserve better some Zionist sh*tpile comes along and posts this drivel, and I am reminded once again that the world would be a better place if Israel did not exist as an established nation.

Smart move for the Palestinians - divided they fall prey to Israel every time. Israel's policy was always to divide the Palestinian people in every way possible: politically and physically (barriers), to make the Palestinian statehood impossible. That gives Israel more time to annex more land and build more settlements.

What part of "winning the war" do you people not understand? The Palestinians, a made up term which amounts to rag tag Arabs, got the crap kicked out of them, and they are in zero position to set any rules. If I was Israel, I'd wouldn't cut the country I fought for in half, I'd throw these Islamic kooks out on their collective butts. It's called I'll do as I damn well please when I'm in charge, and I guarantee you that that Israel isn't going anywhere. They will end up doing what weak America will not do, which is blow Iran's nuclear weapon agenda into sawdust.

Neocons are everywhere these days, the Obama administration included. Everyone wants to take a few swings at the war drum. The thought of our nation finally reaching peace is mere wishful thinking at this point.

Are you all aware that Israel actually hires people to surf "News" website comment boards to help their PR campaigns here in the United States? Read through this board and you'll see the tell tale signs of paid Israel lobby employees spreading their propaganda.

Palestinians are not a "made up people". They are real people who have lived and worked in Palestine for thousands of years. When the world decided to create Israel post WWII, these Palestinian people were displaced. It's the height of hypocrisy to force Palestinians into a ghetto and collectively punish them after having lived through the Holocaust. You would think that the Jewish people would be the last ones to behave this way after all they had been through.

Finally, I have known many Jewish people my whole life, having grown up in New York and now living in Florida. The average Jew hates what Israel's ultra-conservative government is doing in their name. Most of the Jews I know want a two state solution and an end to the Israeli governments aggression.

@divemasterH:

...if israel didnt want peace, they would've cleaned out Gaza, South Lebanon, and the "West Bank"

Do you honestly think that the "war" between Israel and the people of Palestine is equal?

You mean Palestinians should stop their rockets (that have a 99% miss rate), and the Israeli government should stop bombing neighborhoods? That would be more accurate.

During Israel's 12-day assault into the Palestinian Gaza Strip, in response to rockets fired by the Palestinian militants in Hamas, here is the reported death toll as Thursday dawns in the Middle East.

Palestinians: More than 700 dead in Gaza, virtually all civilians

civilians.

Israel: Precisely 6 dead, including 4 civilians maimed by the Hamas rockets and two soldiers who have joined the Gaza assault.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1369755/in_gaza_conflict_compare_palestinian.html

That's a more accurate ratio for all Palestinian and Israeli conflicts and Israel has no problem wiping out children, women and civilians - and then refusing help to the injured from the Red Cross.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLR1342320081227

Hamas is militant but Israel has an arsenal and obvious hate groups or an Israeli wouldn't have killed Rabin. Israel's government had to kill him because he was so close to PEACE - a word that the Israeli government hates.

The Palestinians gave MAJOR concessions to Israel in hopes of peace - but Israel did not accept them. Israel has always been the aggressor - Palestinians throw rocks and Israel strikes an elementary school with an Apache Hellfire missile.

Peace left the Israeli government when they had Yitzak Rabin assassinated! He wanted peace.

Concessions offered to Israel: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession

Israel - everyone says that Hamas is bad - look at how long Israel has been belligerent...

The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (which call for the full normalisation of relations), the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (including Iran) and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas). A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the UN Security Council in January 1976 and backed by the major Arab states. Israel refused to attend. The United States vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980. The record at the General Assembly since is similar.

http://www.newstatesman.com/middle-east/2010/11/israel-chomsky-obama

JCB - winning a war, or series of wars, does not justify ethnic cleansing, or annexation of land given to Palestinians at the same time Israel was created.

It's funny how the teabaggers insist on calling the Palestinians a made-up people... But completely ignore that the State of Israel is 100% made-up.

Scots quote "Palestinians are not a "made up people". They are real people who have lived and worked in Palestine for thousands of years. When the world decided to create Israel post WWII, these Palestinian people were displaced."

Scot, do you know history? The word Palestinian was never even used until after WW1, that land was part of the Ottoman Empire which fell in WW1. Then it was controlled by England until after WW2. Then it was considered Palestine, that does not make it a "country". Arabs being displaced after a war in that area is as old as time. War has consequences my friend.

JCB - winning a war, or series of wars, does not justify ethnic cleansing, or annexation of land given to Palestinians at the same time Israel was created.

Max, "ethnic cleansing", a little bit of a reach Max. Annexing of land is only accomplished when you can hold onto to that land, sorry, but they couldn't, they lost, and with that comes consequences. Hama's is a terrorist group, you don't negotiate with terrorists.

Toasty, I'm not a teabagger, a republican nor a democrat, I'm a progressive realist who's sick of America occupying middle eastern countries, trying to police the world, including Israel. I will let Israel do whatever it damn well pleases, including taking out Iran's nuclear weapon designs. No more American occupations. But that in your pipe dude.

if Israel see Hamas as a terrorist group! we see Israelis as terrorist group as well..

They are as bad as any other bad people who makes no differences between a women and a child, Israel has bombed more women and children than Hamas did!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello!!! May God bring Justice to those who dare go above his laws

JCB - if it was not for US incessant and very costly support for Israel since it's inception, Israel would look very different today, forced to compromise with it's neighbors. We give them billions in taxpayers money, we fight their wars, we give them latest military technology (which they invariably sell later to China or other US enemies). If you were truly neutral in this confilct you would be calling for the end of US financial support for both Israel and Palestine.

Vote for Ron Paul, he will put an end to giving money to mooching foreign states like Israel.

I laugh at all the arm-chair generals on here trying to predict when and how Israel will strike in relation to Arab/Iranian dissent towards there Nazi-like control of the region.

JCB-1236504:

Yes I know the history of the region- do you? The region has been conquered and controlled by many different "States" including the Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphate, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, the Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, and the British.

Just because the area wasn't technically classified as a country, doesn't mean that the Palestinian people haven't lived and worked the land for thousands of years. Israel wasn't created until 1948- and their formal classification as a State doesn't give them the right to steal land from the indigenous populations.

How would you react if your foreign neighbor put up a fence cutting off half of your back yard? I don't know about you, but I would be a little pissed off. By the way, what's your motivation for defending Israel so thoroughly? Evangelical or paycheck?

joeNY, just for your information, pieces of the puzzle fall into place, soldiers fall in line, but chips fall in the dip.

What Israel is doing is blasting the "unity" pledge between two factions of Palestine political groups - hopefully, the unity will lead to the same kind of peace agreement and general reduction in terrorist activity as occurred in Northern Ireland. Its easy to see the parallel between the Northern Ireland groups and the Palestine groups - unless one has a view that Palestinian people are hell-bent, angry and quick to violence, unlike the Irish ;). Slainté

.

The amount of ignorance being spewed on here from both sides is absolutely insane. All of you need to pick up a history book, take some political classes, or just get a life!

Israel PM: Palestinian reconciliation deal abandons 'way of peace'

And he should know!

Hamas is the biggest enemy of Palestinian statehood, and Netanyahu is the biggest enemy of peace for Israel.

Ok, sadly, I just read some more posts, and Scot H. Nichols, what can I say? It sure would be nice if you posted some of your sources. You obviously need to do a little more research before you can even start to pretend like you know what you're talking about. Every single one of your posts on here contain lies that aren't even debateable.

For example:

If Israel was glassed over, we wouldn't have to pay $20,000 a year to every man, woman and child per year from our foreign aid ($110 Billion and counting so far)

Post #1.7

Let's look at your numbers:

$110 Billion - I assume you are saying this is the total amount of aid the US has sent to Israel since it was created (in reality, the actual number is slightly higher)

$20,000 per year to every man woman and child - you can't be serious.

Total population of Israel = 7,624,600

So, $20,000 X 7,624,600 = $152,492,000,000

Are you really trying to say that the US sends Israel over $150 billion (more than the US has sent to Israel since it was created) dollars a year?

Do you really expect any relatively intelligent person to believe anything else you say?

Oh, and accussing everyone who supports Israel or has an opposing view than your own, as being a paid Israeli propagandist, while you spread these kinds of lies makes me wonder who's paying you...

JCB : This is why God have people like me to pray for people like you. I will keep praying no matter what! one day we re going to need it and God will Judge us one way or another!

For gods sake here people. First the word palestine as been used since the days of rome. When Jesus was around it was called palestine. And during and before ww1 the palestinians revolted severeal times agianst the ottomans. who did you think helped lawerence of arabia. Isreal is the terroists the take palestinians land. viva la palestinia

usa-navy,

....how dare you post common sense! (BTW, I was USAF, going out on open water scares the hell out of me, sharks and stuff, but I loved flying, to each his own). Yes, the writings of the Roman Emperor Claudius mention Palestine and a possible rabble rouser named Joshua Bar David (later re-named Jesus Christus by the Greeks), whomever that may be.

Ray in Jax,

Just how long has AIPAC been paying you?

Remember who started this fight. Not Israel. The Arabs attack Israel in 1948 an 1967. Islam hates the fact that a non-islamic country existing in the middle east.

Jews were living in Judah 1,800 years before the first Muslim came to be. The Palestinians (Arabs) are the invaders. They displaced the Jews around 800 AD. The Palestinians are just upset that the Jews returned.

Toasty has been calling anybody that thinks differently than himself teabaggers for years now. He brings nothing of substance to these message boards.

No, I call anyone with right-leaning views that title. There are plenty of people whom I disagree with that are not teabaggers. And don't think I came up with the term; they were the ones who called themselves that first, before their grandchildren explained to them the modern meaning of the term. It is solely incidental, too. I apply the label based solely on individual posts.

Toasty, you know exactly what you are. You called me a racist because I spoke up against Obama's policies. I voted for this President but as soon as I didn't like what he was doing, I was a racist in your mind. Nothing open minded about your stances here.

How do you expect Israel to negotiate a peace with an enemy that is openly sworn to their ultimate destruction? to be fair, you must also require the U.S. to make peace with Islamic militants. It's only fair...

Cynic- Israel is in a very bad position here. They are located in the center of a growing anti-Israeli/fundimentalist Islamic region and most of the governments are headed more radical and unified against them. Egypt just flipped and their arms are documented as heading to Gaza, Libya's arms are all over the black markets so some of them (potent anti-aircraft missiles, etc.) may be going there too, Iran is vowing to take out Israel and tying the bow on their nuclear weapons program, and now factions that haven't been getting along are doing so (likely preparing to take on Israel via Iran's wishes and promises of the left over land).

Sure, it would be nice if Israel could co-exist in the region, however they have little reason to give back the land used against them in last century's wars. Give away the high ground in the Golan Heights so (now that there are better long range tactical weapons) your vowed enemies can place their shots on most of your cities (remember that Israel is only about 20 miles across so it's not very far between cities). Give away the other land Israel took in the other wars, so that it's just that much smaller a territory to work with. Unfortunately it appears that they are going to be attacked on multiple sides again, later bringing the big fire on them from Iran. That will kill millions very quickly. I hope we don't go there.

umm this past summer in New York: Bibi: I am here to negotiate, so lets negotiate..." Abbas: nothing but maybe a fart...you tell me who the problem maker is..

Ray in Jax - saying you want to destroy something is A LOT different than actually destroying it... Israel is the terrorist government.

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/672.shtml

.. Between 25 June 2006 and the truce that came into force at the end of November 2006, over 400 Palestinians were killed and some 1,500 injured. More than half of those killed and wounded were civilians. Of those killed some 90 were children; and over 300 children were injured. During the same period three israeli soldiers were killed and 18 wounded, and two Israeli civilians were killed and some 30 injured in Sderot and its precincts by Qassam rockets fired by Palestinians from Gaza."

The Qassam rockets are unpredictable and rarely kill anyone - compared to the very sophisticated Israeli military who obliterates entire neighborhoods with Hellfire missiles.

Israel rejected the UN report - the pictures tell what happened, dead Palestinian children - now that is a war crime.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100921-un-criticises-israel-hamas-inadequate-war-crimes-probes-goldstone-gaza-offensive

Israel has rejected the UN report, by South African Judge Richard Goldstone, that Israel is responsible for war crimes that stem from the Dec. 2008 conflict between Israel and Palestine.

Israel had flatly refused to cooperate with the committee appointed by the UN Human Rights Council to examine the progress of investigations by all parties in the war which left some 1,400 Palestinians dead and 13 Israelis.

Does this seem like a fair "war?" The Palestinian Authority has said that it: (one of it's many concessions offered)

"won't oppose war crimes trials for Hamas militants"

link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/pa-won-t-oppose-war-crimes-trials-for-hamas-militants-1.5971

I think this shows that Palestinians are for peace, Israel is not.

http://www.france24.com/en/20090915-un-report-accuses-israeli-army-palestinian-militants-war-crimes-gaza-strip

A Gaza observer group has said over 900 of more than 1,400 Palestinians killed in the conflict were civilians. Israel said just under 300 civilians and some 900 fighters were killed. Thirteen Israelis, 10 soldiers and three civilians, died.

If you watched Palestinian news, or read Al Jazeera, you know that the violence in 2008 was carried out on civilians and Israel knew it, they bombed as most children were retuning from school, they leveled an entire block to "supposedly" kill just one Hamas militant who "may" have been in the area. Israel was condemned by the world for this action, with the exception of the United States.

WARNING, THE LINK BELOW HAS GRAPHIC IMAGES OF DEAD PALESTINIAN CHILDREN FROM THE 2008 ISRAELI ATTACK -

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=50118

The link below is a report of the 2008 massacre (no images).

http://www.indymedia.org/pt/2008/12/918368.shtml

While Israel was chastised in the Goldman report at the UN, several countries, including the US walked out.

Link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/pa-won-t-oppose-war-crimes-trials-for-hamas-militants-1.5971

The countries that voted against the report included the U.S., Italy, Holland, Hungary, Slovakia and Ukraine.

Israel needs to stop killing Palestinians for there to be peace. Israeli mothers and Palestinian mothers alike, do not want to bury their children. Israeli TV (you can watch it on LINK channel), always claims that it attacks Palestine and kills "a few" militants after provocation. Then the Palestinian News comes on, and all you see is destruction and death and wailing. Mother's holding their dead infants asking what did this infant do?

So many Palestinian civilians are murdered each year, with no excuse or apology for Israel, I wish, however, for peace, but Israel holds the key to peace and I think they lost it.

I'm afraid Israel is the ONLY thing standing between Iran's nuclear build up and the rest of us. If terroists get their hands on nuclear power we can ALL kiss the world goodbye...........

Ray in Jax : How do you expect to make peace with Israel? if Israel has killed more women and children than Hamas did!

Cynicl1 is right! no matter what you do or how you do it!! Israel always find excuses to make it very hard on Palestinians to achieve peace.

We are all aware of the games Israel plays now to make peace impossible! so be it.. this is just going toward the path other prophets have predicted before it will happen!

Maxeemas

Ray in Jax : How do you expect to make peace with Israel? if Israel has killed more women and children than Hamas did!

In response to unprovoked attacks.... It suck women and children and innocent men are killed. The blood is on the hand of Hamas. they know the consequences and continue to fire rockets anyway.... I'm not condoning Israel's harsh responses, but come on, would you be weeping for those women and children if Hamas rockets were landing on your homes?

And again, how do you make peace with an organization who has taken an oath to your total destruction? Why doesn't the US make peace with Al Qaeda? The same goes for Israel and Hamas....

Ray in Jax= paid Israeli propagandist.

Israeli collective punishment and the killing of children is a war crime- period. If you examine the leaked documents from Wikileaks, you will see that even Hamas offered to recognize Israel, and suspend their fight against their oppressors. Israel doesn't want peace. It makes it much easier to steal land if you are at war. And while Hamas has pledged Israels destruction, Israel is actually destroying the Palestinians. Missiles are more powerful than words.

If someone bombed and killed one of MY children, I would never give up until the perpetrator was dead. Never. Why can't you understand that the collective punishment of civilians will NEVER bring someone to the negotiation table. Israel murders with overwhelming force, unfortunately using weapons we the taxpayers of the United States bought for them.

Let Israel fight it out, and continue to oppose the peace process. Karma is a bitch and they are surrounded by angry people and fed up countries. The U.S. needs to walk away from this mess and let the regional players work it out. If the U.S. weren't pumping more than $3 Billion a year into Israel, they would have been forced to compromise a long time ago. Ergo- we are complicit in their murderous campaign. How about a ballot measure in the 2012 election that asks if we the taxpayers want to continue to fund this rogue State?

Ray : the problem with Hamas firing rocket to Israel... the damage is always little and barely any one dies in the process... Israel finds this as an opening to kill dozens of innocent people.

protecting yourself does not mean you have to kill innocent people all the time!

if Israel stops building over occupy land! it wont be no rockets landing there! but Hamas is doing what it needs to stop Israel building over occupied lands. Rockets are landing on occupied land and of course Israel see it as terrorist attack over it s soil but it s stolen land!

you put a home for an Israeli in an occupied land, Hamas comes to fire rocket on that elegal home built in an stolen land! and we have to blame Hamas of course! but not Israel who didnt care about the UN sanction to not build anything over occupied land. This is crazy but Israel have the right to fire even when they know they are the one who s provocing this whole mess!!!!!!!

Scot H. makes perfect since but who listens? they dont care! Israel have the power and the upper hand today, why give up some land today when they know they could have it all.

Israel is building little by little over occupied land under the watch of the world and no one can say a word because every one is affraid of US Israel baby toy they could use against them! Not to mention crimes against humanity committed by Israelis troops

If Iran even dares nuke Israel they'll be wiped off the planet, so I hope their ONE or TWO little warheads are worth the annihilation of their entire population.

it would be nice if Israel could co-exist in the region, however they have little reason to give back the land used against them in last century's wars.

Swap land for peace.

But first you have to TALK. Netanyahu has wasted years of opportunity.

Ray In Jax you don't make peace with your friends, you make it with your adversaries, and when you refuse to treat with them you shut off all possibility of reaching a peaceful resolution. Also when you continue to deny the humanity of your opponent, steal his land, restrict his movement in his own territory you inflame passions: all things Israel continues to do.

Ray in Jax,

Hey man, saw you at the last AIPAC convention, man, you are primo; great hair, suit & Mercedes and that blonde shixsha with the Star of David pendant on your shoulder (don't worry, didn't take a cell phone picture). Hey, I still have that Karl Rove brochure you handed out to me.

Hamas murdered thr Plo= and el fatah the last time they tried working together.Hamas is a sharia,jihad.crazed pyscho nazi style terrorist group-They follow the Iranian line of "kill the infidels Jews,Christians.Hindus and others and they train their children to be little suicide bombers amd they sacrifice their babies by putting them near rocker launchers and then makning photomontages.The Gazans confirmed this to Italian journalists who entered after the truce with Israel.What happened to these Gazans who talked to foreign journalists.Tortured murdered or disappeared.Hamas.like alquida.talebans,hezbollah,Iran are wild dogs let loose.Sorry boys I am not a zionist ,have never been to Israel.You don`t have to be to identify the warning signals of a "heil ayatollah" who wear phony cleric skirts and in the name of perversion and sick ranting and raving have held the world hostage for 32 years.Hamas is made of the same cloth.Soon it will be "bye bye hamas.bye bye hezbollah bye bye Iran". And most of the world wll cheer like ..like they did when Hitler and Japan fell.Israel will of course lead the charge as the chief victim of the Iranian Nazi regime but there will be MANY countries that help.including Muslim and Arab ones.And hamas will be one of the groups that is swept away in the debris!!And the Palestinian cause will probably be set back for years.Abbas wake up hamas will slit your throat 1.2,3!They ar the enemy not Israel!!

The real problem is you are asking Israel to give up secure borders and deal with people who compare you to dogs and call you infidel. How can you expect Israel to make peace with a people that believe killing a Jew will grant them entry into heaven? I don't blame Israel at all for the stall in peace talks. If they think they can get a peace deal while Hamas is at the table, they got another think coming....

Ray...........there's more to it than that. In some ways, what you describe is often Israel's excuse for not negotiating in good faith. The fact is, Israel has occupied another country for the past 50 years. They are just as responsible for the impasse as the Palestinians. Both sides have killed plenty of civilians. Both sides incite the other with their actions (Rockets from Hamas and Israeli settlements on Palestinian land). If Israeli's really want peace, they will negotiate with a unity government.

i'm sure Israel will negotiate for peace with Hamas as soon as the U.S. negotiates with Al Qaeda....

I'd also like to point out that Israel gained the disputed lands in a war it did not start. As for whether that is right or wrong, I'm not sure...

You are quite wrong. Israel did "start" the 1967 war in which it seized Palestinian (and Syrian) land. This action violated the Geneva Conventions which specify that a warring nation must not annex land that belongs to its enemy state(s).

Ironically, that ban was put in place because of the (temporary, as it turns out) annexations by . . . Adolf Hitler. And lest anyone forget, a state of war still exists between North and South Korea.

Ray......I might agree with you if Israel had negotiated with the Palestinian Authority (PA) - but they didn't. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority broke with each other a few years ago. Hamas had the Gaza Strip and the PA had the West Bank. The Palestinian Authority isn't calling for the destruction of Israel and yet the Israeli's didn't negotiate with them in good faith. In fact, all they did was build Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem in an effort to claim more land.

Both sides are responsible for this mess. Both sides need to be part of the solution.

Friend of dead, yes Israel suprise attacked but the other countries were massing soldiers on the border. In fact, Egypt shut Israel out from the Straits. Israel does not need to wait to be attacked after being attcked twice earlier in previous wars. Last thing, didn't Israel give back the Sanai to the egyptians even after they had lost the war, the war they attacked first.

Admetum- Israel was negotitating with Abbas until Hamas came into power. Peace has never been an option for Hamas. And prior to Abbas they had Arafat which was not a very trust worthy peace negoitator.

The Palestinian authority didn't call for their destruction but Hamas did and they have been in power for several years now.

I will agree that both side are responsible, but I can't fault Israel for not working with Hamas. Hamas never agreed to support Israel's right to exist. With no security assured for Israelites why offer Hamas to the other cheek. Israel is done turning the cheek as they should be.

Adam......Israel hasn't honestly tried to negotiate with the Palestinian Authority since they split with Hamas. There was nothing stopping Israel from reaching an agreement with Abbas in the West Bank after Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip. Instead, they chose to build a wall, build settlements on Palestinian land as well as in east Jerusalem.

As for negotiating with Hamas, why not? Israel can't beat them militarily. There will always be someone to launch a rocket or plant a bomb. The only way to end the violence is to negotiate an agreement. Israel shouldn't negotiate with terrorists? The British negotiated an agreement with the IRA in Northern Ireland. When both sides (and I do mean both sides) truly want peace - they'll negotiate.

Friend of the Dead

You are quite wrong. Israel did "start" the 1967 war in which it seized Palestinian (and Syrian) land. This action violated the Geneva Conventions which specify that a warring nation must not annex land that belongs to its enemy state(s).

You failed to mention what led up to the war.... Syria had amassed troops on Israels border, Egypt announced the closing of the straights, cutting Israel off from shipping, and declared it's ultimate goal was the destruction of Israel in 1955. Syria, Egypt and Jordan signed a defense pact that also stated the goal of Israel's destruction.

The PLO launched a series of guerrilla attacks inside Israel that left 3 dead. Israel was attacked by Jordanian units that tried to permit the PLO an escape and were quickly beaten back. 3 days later, Iraqi troops began to head for the front at Jordan's invitation.

Was Israel supposed to just sit back and let the troops amass and then attack Israel? You can claim that Israel started the war, to which I'd respond; nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Friend of dead......I think Israel did the only thing they could do in order to survive back in 1967. They were going to be attacked. They simply beat the other side to the punch. Waiting for the Arab nations to gain the advantage would have been suicide.

Ray in JAX : if it was up to me the solution is easy.. by building more over occupied land, Israel is only making peace talk impossible! if they want peace they should stop building and come to the table and split the land based on how they had it before! both side needs to give up something for the sake of the future of their new generation, this will help both side to work and live side by side and move on toward a good SAFE future! Israel is not doing any of this! by letting Israel build more over occupied land, Hamas have no choice to send rockets over on top those building were build over occupied land / stolen land. there is a difference between owning a place by law and a place that its not recognized yet! of course if you build something in it not according to the UN sanction laws and Hamas strike it, we should not blame them! because Israel is triggring it s own problem and blame it on HAMAS HELLO!!!

imagine Palestine building homes over occupied land. Israel will destroy them in seconds but Israel can build over them with no problems.

what you think of that? is it fair? Hell No

Israel is out to destroy Palestinians? That's news to me... Since when is a country required to negotiate anything with an entity that is sworn to their destruction. While Israeli response to rocket attacks is often harsh, if Cuba was firing rockets to Florida, the U.S. would react as well. There are many supporters of Israel that aren't 'blind' as you put it. They support Israel just as they would any other ally threatened with harm. They are surrounded by Arab enemies that seek it's destruction.

As for your analysis on the Iran situation, do you really believe Iran is capable of closing the straight for any length of time? You speak of arrogance as if you were an expert on the topic. As for be blinded from reality, I suggest you take your blinders off. You might as well be asking the U.S. to make peace with Islamic militants, as you are with Israel. You don't have a clue....

Unfortunately this decision doesn't dilute the argument that the Palestinians want to destroy Israel. It's just a strategic move on the part of Hamas to gain control of the West Bank in the next election. They can then attack Israel from two fronts. I don't support the unwavering support of Israel by the U.S., but I wouldn't negotiate peace with any government that included a group that wanted to see my destruction. A ceasefire is not peace, as can be seen in Korea.

Look at a map and compare the size of Israel and its population to that of its arab neighbors it is unlikely one would come to the conclusion that Israel, population 7,624,600 (2010: Source: World Bank, World Development Indicators), less than New York City and not that much bigger, would be the agressor against a couple of hundred million arabs with a land mass 100x bigger.Get a grip. Israel is the only democracy and our only true friend in the ME. Sorry jew haters, but those are the facts. Go ahead, look at a map, educate yourselves.

Yes, Israel is the obstacle... The leadership of Iran, Syria, and the rest of the Islamofascist hell holes are just a bunch of flower-throwing hippies, dancing naked and singing Kumbaya around the fire.

Norm, your logic is bogus, bogus,bogus.

Did Hitler look at the map for relative sizes when he tried to invade Russia? Did the Japanese check the map before trying to invade China?

Give me a break.

norm903

Look at a map and compare the size of Israel and its population to that of its arab neighbors it is unlikely one would come to the conclusion that Israel, population 7,624,600 (2010: Source: World Bank, World Development Indicators), less than New York City and not that much bigger, would be the agressor against a couple of hundred million arabs with a land mass 100x bigger.Get a grip

===========

..........Sounds good on paper, now go back in history and look at what a smaller Japan was able to do to a much larger China, and Korea, in the 1930s.

Jimbo and Roadhouse. I thought of the Japan/China comparison before posting, but it is not a fair point as both Japan and Germany waged unconditional, non-stop war to conquer the world. Why do you condemn Israel for defending against terrorists (hamas, hezbollah, PLO)? Any land taken is to establish more defensible borders, not Anschluss. Nonetheless, for the moment let's presume Israel is somehow the agressor here. My question to you is this, to what end? Why? How and what do they gain from it?

Please explain how is it in Israel's interest to be at war with her neighbors, collectively whom have 100x more land, population, and wealth? That is what I am missing.

Any land taken is to establish more defensible borders

Bullsh*t.

Most land seized by Israel ends up being allocated to new settlements, which grow like a spreading plague and in turn require the acquisition of more territory.

If you're going to defend Israel at least try to post comments which make sense, and have a kernel of truth in them.

stonedog: Let's agree to disagree.

Ray in Jax...your comments are the rhetoric that has been going on for a long time now. You have no ability to see both sides of this issue. I've been there and seen what is going on...I understand that after what happened in WW II that Israel needed to be founded as a homeland for the Jewish people. I have been a stanch supporter of Israel for probably longer than you've been alive. And I never imagined the Jewish people as a nation could do to people what they are now doing. Israel has been taken over by a radical right wing, who will and have committed assasinations not only of their enemies but of their own leaders who disagree with them. They have no intention of doing anything but decimating the Palestinian people...imagine America being run by radical right wing Christians. Oh I forgot that's the Republican Party and we got involved in two insane wars...but that's another issue. I'm an American who believes the time is right for Israel to pursue a peaceful solution with its neighbors. There are alot of good things going on with its neighbors and Israel has a golden opportunity right now to be part of that changing dynamic. Israel certainly has the big swords...but unless they can learn to turn those swords into plowshares and not have the entire region erupt into a war zone I'm afraid this bravado that people like yourself and the Israeli government bandy about may not turn out the way you may think. Maintaining a war horse is very expensive...and the treasury Israel uses for maintaining their stallion is broke.

Ron, as soon as Hamas announces Israel's right to exist, I'm with you 100%. As long as they are bent on Israel's destruction, all bets are off.

I'm not bandying about bravado, as you put it, I'm simply stating that no one here is crying out for the U.S. to stop the bloodshed and negotiate peace with Al Qaeda... which is equivalent to Israel recognizing Hamas as a political party... the US has killed plenty of women and children as well; the enemy lives amongst them and fires at our troops from within hospitals and mosques. If Hamas chooses to launch rockets from neighborhoods, so be it....

Israel has the world's 24th largest economy as of 2010 records. They also have a respectable GDP growth rate. they are hardly broke.

24th largest economy with solid GDP growth? GREAT!!! Now we can stop sending them our taxpayer money. Again $20K for every man, woman and child, $110 Billion so far. Let them pay there own way and stop sucking off the United States. STOP FOREIGN AID TO ISRAEL!

That is an idiotic statement. The link you offer is a 404 and your claim that U.S. officials are involved with Hamas is absolutely ludicrous.... Offer the proof or keep your conspiracy theories to your self.

mimi, Obama also has dealings with ICC criminal in the US. I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about. Obama also sent representatives to Spain to put a halt on court procedings, pertaining to the ICC criminal residing in Texas. Care to comment about that?

Moronic claim Mimi. You are probably just a garden variety racist, opposed to anything Obama does. Personally, I'm not an Obama supporter, but I still respect the office of the Presidency and I suggest you do the same. Posting ridiculous theories like you have done makes YOU look like an idiot and negates any legitimate point the opposition wants to make. I respect opposing viewpoints and delight in finding common ground with an adversary, but your blather makes us disengage.

There are some great sites on the internet for you to post your foaming vitriol- but don't do it here. The grownups are trying to have a conversation.

Scot, what you said is moronic? you would throw your only true friend like Israel under the bus for someone who wants to change your way of life and kill you and your children because you don't believe in Allah? You must be either a moron or just a bigot? Which is it? Wake up and smell the coffee Einstein.

Good grief, can you please get it?

Well you know, Ray. This is what happens when you steal peoples' homes and ethnically cleanse an area. The locals tend to hold a grudge and want you to leave.

The Arab hate and discontent for the Jews goes back thousands of years toasty. As for ethnic cleansing, come on, that's just ridiculous. Do you realize that Palestinians are able to take jobs within Israel? The PLO and Arafat were the obstacles to peace. Now it is Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.

It's easy to say Israel isn't negotiating in good faith; whats hard is to understand why....

Sorry if you don't like it, but it is what it is.

Toasty, I know you believe you are correct and that is one limited and uniformed point of view. But what Hamas wants is more than an exit for the West Bank, but total destruction of Israel, ie "drive them into the Sea", a reference to the exit from Egypt.

I suggest you visit Israel. Look at the Country, the nearness of Israel to its enemies, the beauty of the country, the assimilation of Israeli Arabs into the political life as well as all life. Sure, their are differing points of view and real problems like any Democracy, but that's the beauty of,it. Because they don't try to,solve their internal probles by turning their guns against each other, unlike Hamas and Fatah.

All I'm pointing out is that it's not America's problem, and we shouldn't waste any more blood and treasure supporting that mistake that has already cost us far too much.

Absolutely we should. Israel is as important to Christians as it is to Jews. And the US stands besides its allies. Ultimately, a Country is judged by its integrity and how it lives up to its commitments to its friends, and not by how it shies away from conflict with its enemies.

David & Ray...Could you guys say those things with a straight face.Israeli Palestinians live at best as second class citizens in their own country.Pretty much as blacks did in the US before Civil Rights.Not even counting the 4 million Palestinians that Israels controls with a military occupation, the like of which no modern society as lived under since WW2.Israel is a democracy for the Jews in Israel,but its an apartheid society for its non-Jewish citizens.And no amount of cover-ups and lies will keep fooling the world.Little by little ,even the American people are beginning to see Israel for the racist society that it is.

Another response that is clueless......

Number one, Fatah is secular and has not openly sworn to bring about Israel's destruction. Hamas has. They still fire rockets over the border in attempt to kill Israelis indiscriminately. They killed their own people to gain political power in Gaza, they tossed people from roof tops to their death below. They kill innocent Israelis by bombing bus stops and cafes. You speak of human rights? Ha!

you might as well insist that sheep negotiate with wolves....

james2260698 well stated. hey ray are you going to isreal to fight or is your belly yellow?

Where is the proof that Obama has officials dealing with Hamas? That was your claim that i was refuting. no apology is being offered because that claim is ludicrous...

here is the Google search... not a single word of any claim that you make. the man is a wanted terrorist... since Google didn't support you, give us a link to solid proof...

http://search.searchcompletion.com/?si=21650&home=1&q=Ramadan+Abdullah+Mohammad+Shalah

Just found and read the story about the Congolese Gold.... The man is not part of the Obama administration, he is a trade advisor and he works for a private company that was attempting to purchase the gold from what they thought was a Keynan owner...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/05/us-adviser-linked-illegal-drc-gold?newsfeed=true

what other spin do you have for us? Still waiting on your proof to back your claim Obama administration officials are in dealings with Hamas, a terrorist organization....

That still doesn't prove that Obama administration officials are dealing with them. The claim is just absurd and you offer no proof. When were these wanted men in Florida? How did they even travel to the U.S.? You lose credibility every time you post on this matter.

You said....

Pres.Obama's affiliates are also present in Hamas.

I'm simply asking you to provide proof, not direct me to Google or wiki... you made the claim, you substantiate it.....

too bad i wasnt here when they were..i woulda capped them!

No, Israel doesn't want peace. Hamas wants war. Abbas and the West Bank might give Israel what they want IF Israel will stop taking more and more land. Isreal won't stop because they militarily have the upper hand. So, it's the same old, same old in the Middle East. If you ask me, they all deserve each other. Maybe we should stop handing out billions of dollars to Israel, Egypt, and all of them. As the saying goes, with friends like these, who needs enemies.

@ bob/bill: as an israeli american i agree with ending the aid...as for "lasting" they will. i know that must irk you, but after 48, israel has allways won with out the help of the gentile world. thanks for your brain fart...stinking up the internet

Bob-3241043

Isreal doesn't want peace. Bibi is barking at the moon and hoping for war with Iran and then he'll wipe out the Palestinians. Enough of this BS support isreal crap.

End all aid to isreal. Let's see how many days they last without us.

I hate to burst your anti-semantic bubble, but Israel, small as it is, has the world's 24t largest economy. they would do fine without monetary aid.

Are you aware it was Israel that developed several weapon systems adapted by the U.S.? Sure, they get more technology from the US than the US has received from Israel, I'm merely pointing out that Israel can innovate and survive without us. We are their loyal ally for the simple fact of having influence in the area.

We spent far more in Iraq and Afghanistan than we have spent in aid to Israel. Most of the aid we provide comes in the form of weapon sales and replacement parts.

boo @!$%#ing hoo..lerts go back over a hundres years and review all the @!$%# the US did to the natives here?....the 'Liberty'...yaaaaaaaawn!

Thanks Bob. Never forget the USS Liberty, 8 June 1967.

Let's also talk about the hundred of thousands of dead civilians in Iraq. We can also discuss the innocent loss of life in the Warizstan area of Afghanistan to drones. How about the hundreds of thousands that died in Tokyo with our incendiary bombing? How about two nuke devices killing millions more? The US makes Israel look like a new kid on the block.... how about our shooting down of an innocent Iranian jetliner that killed 179 innocent passengers?

The near sinking of the USS Liberty was during the 6 day war, at a time when Israeli defense was on it's highest alert. They have apologized, they have made two large lump sum payments to family members and have paid a settlement to the US with interest. Two independent inquiries came to the conclusion it was mis-identification of the ship, which we had not notified Israel was in the area. what did Israel hope to achieve by purposely attacking it's strongest ally?

WRONGED???? um, turks sided w/ the german in WWI, the pali Mufti sided w/ the Nazis in WWII, the palis listened to all the retard leaders of the region- 48, 67, 73, and lost. Israel gave back the Sinai, and Gaza.. so you tell me who the trouble maker is...i hope they keep building, as anyone living somewhere can. where do you live, and what land was taken from its original owners? hippocrite...

1967 borders, so the towns can get shelled indiscriminately, again, right...keep dreamin hippie

Wow, really? What history book are you reading? The land belongs to Israel and only Israel your basing your opinion on relatively recent history when you need to go back thousands of years to understand who really belongs on that land and its the Jews. We have ancient Rome to thank for this mess and the emperor who evited the Jews way back when.

leeching for centuries? Where the hell you been? Just another anti-Semite spewing his or her hate... They murdered their way into existence? Wow, I want what you're smoking....

I would remind both sides of the discussion here that calling supporters of either the Israeli's or Palestinians anti-Semitic is some what ironic since they are BOTH Semitic tribes with a shared genetic heritage. For those who claim the Palestinians are interlopers, think again they are the same stock that the Israelis rose from. They are more Brothers in Blood than Cousins.

Internecine fights are often the bloodiest ones, as this struggle illustrates all too well.

LMFAO! anothe poli sci student know nothing?

Yeah Lee, they should allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons.... smart....

To divemasterH,

So,since you seem to not like any peace plan around.What is your idea for a peace plan?

snappa.....your prejudice is showing. Muslims have been on that land just as long as the Jews. Both sides are responsible for the current conflict. I don't condone the rocket attacks or violence perpetrated by Hamas. I also don't condone the fact that Israel has occupied Palestine for the past forty or so years.

A few years ago, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians an excellent peace deal which they stupidly rejected. Now it's the Israeli's who are acting stupidly by building settlements and refusing to negotiate in good faith. If both sides truly want peace, they will negotiate. If the British and the IRA negotiate a peace deal - the Palestinians and Israelis should be able to.

snappa.....your prejudice is showing. Muslims have been on that land just as long as the Jews. Both sides are responsible for the current conflict. I don't condone the rocket attacks or violence perpetrated by Hamas. I also don't condone the fact that Israel has occupied Palestine for the past forty or so years.

A few years ago, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians an excellent peace deal which they stupidly rejected. Now it's the Israeli's who are acting stupidly by building settlements and refusing to negotiate in good faith. If both sides truly want peace, they will negotiate. If the British and the IRA negotiate a peace deal - the Palestinians and Israelis should be able to.

Palestine is not a Country. The territory is partly ruled by Terrorist Organization Hamas. They have no legal borders. Isn't funny that Israel and Egypt have a treaty and never fight, kill, murder one another since that time. If Mexico had two leaders one was bent on USA destruction and sent missiles, people with bombs on their back to crowded Restaurants and vowed to never ever compromise with USA dogs. Plus wanted all their territory back from Wars in the past. Now you tell me what the USA would do about this? They would kick Mexico's rear end and find every terrorist they could find and send a cruise missile up their rear ends (sorry Mexico was just making a point). Until Hamas is removed as leaders of Palestine people their will never ever be any Peace, period. No one in their right mind would deal with them. Everyone's definition of right or wrong is different to be sure. I am just telling you the way it is. Most everyone would like Peace by Israel and Palestine Territory. If you do not then there is something wrong with you.

Alan......Israel and Palestine were created at the same time.

i think your full o @!$%#e..you probably never even been there..